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(Added 20011212 to web page- a second Rebick problem, located below beginning:
5 years ago Jerry Brown said.
about:
Judy, turn down media requests. You displace others willing to defend Thobani when you won't. )
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RebickwagepeaceIntelligenceData20010921
C:\WINDOWS\Favorites\RebickwagepeaceIntelligenceData20010921.doc
Sent 2001
0925 to Judy Rebick at:
elmstreet@m-v-p.com
Judy Rebick, take warning:
YOU ARE IN DANGER, wake up blind Audra who has been in bed with your right wing mole since my warning emailed to you at this
address many months ago on-
Wednesday, May 02, 2001 2:24 AM
elmstreet@m-v-p.com
Read it this time please. ( No courtesy of any replies yet, 2001 1212.)
Excuse the
superlatives, red fonts etc because my research has been so rudely dismissd by Rabble.ca in the past.
Obvious to everyone, you work alone without any advisors. Your horrible web page problems can end. You, Jesse Hirsh and
I should at least be in the same room for 5 minutes once a month to exchange a few ideas to help each other when necessary.
Say when & where ? Avoid problems.
Please stop Audra from punishing me for protecting you.
I am still gagged by Audra from posting alerts to other human rights workers like myself. How about sending me some people
with normal resources to enhance, modify or push my web page idea (address below). I have only a pension income and cannot
fight off Canada's enemies all by myself, when right wing web site supporters like Rabble.ca (you) are kicking me (described
below). I have no money, but I have to support 3 homeless street people that hang around the nearest corner to my apartment
door.
First Nations activist Ward Churchill says that "You need some 50-year-olds to get
off their fat asses and stop reading books. Understanding minus the ACTION is masturbation in politics," he says of the
academics who theorize and pontifcate without acting" He adds...."I'm inclined to anything that works."
Quote from your enemy's front page: http://www.geocities.com/rabblethinktank/
This site is the home of the Rabble think tanks. We are not officially affilliated with rabble.ca , however, we are all
regular contributors to that important web site. We felt that regional think tanks would allow rabble contributors to become
connected at a more local level.
Rabble.ca unofficially sponsors
"Rabble Think Tanks", because, "We are not officially affilliated" says to me that
Judy unofficialy embraces, even though her web site is being highjacked right in the open:
wagepeace rabble-rouser Member # 114 posted September 19, 2001 07:42 AM then, September 21, 2001 01:45
AM
http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=000128
The right wing mole doesn't seem to need to hide what he is doing as he is highjacking his carefully assembled
troops called 'Audra Rocks!', along with as many others as he can steal of Rabble.ca's political vanilla eyeballs to his new
web site for right wing "Think Tanks" which he is in the process of setting up all the way across the country, and
right under the nose of his verbally seduced Audra who never saw it coming. Before Audra kicked out john (jsg8472) from posting
privileges about the end of April, jsg8472 tried to warn her, but wagepeace was too clever in his secret emails to Audra.
A self-admitted "Righty" (right winger), wagepeace claims 8 years of chat group experience (
VS jsg8472 as a first time try-out in a chat group), now may be still stalking me.
He is assisted
by his 'straightman' (woman ?) -
Dawna Matrix rabble-rouser Member # 156 posted September 19,
2001 05:53 PM
Stop soliciting your cute ass, wager.
Posts:
1286 | From: Toronto, Ontario | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged
Curiously today Wed Sept
19 wagepeace has adopted a model: http://www.geocities.com/rabblethinktank/ which as a soapbox, he started a few weeks after
I started and also almost a copy of my idea: https://j8472.tripod.com/wrenchnewspaper/ I foresee us clash in the future between
tree-hugger and Hitler-hugger, and his deep pocket sponsors have him already way out in front of me. Mine is positive social
action while there is reason to expect him to continue with a dangerous right wing agenda to demonize the victims of the upcoming
new McCarthyism. Wagepeace wisely avoids any hint of his "Think Tanks" mirroring his agenda. His excellent manipulation
of morality using the standard well-worn 'divide and conquer' debating tactic- anti-violence has disguised his position enough
to effectively 'cherry-pick' the swing-vote of newcomers who are most vulnerable at the first stage prior to discovering political
contradictions.
Under the polarization and current climate of political hysteria, Judy Rebick
could easily be held for McCarthyist interrogation by the police and accused of Un-American activities. If she were an American
living in the US, she might be now prudently shopping for a "safe house" to hide in. One has to ask why all wagepeace's
postings are starkly absent of any criticism of Judy Reick's left wing actions while making hateful remarks about Maude Barlow
(who holds similar views) and her followers, by wagepeace- ( quote from wagepeace- "....Maude Barlow and her ilk")
How did all this go over the head of the moderator ? This mole approach, (this is but one of a mosaic
of examples of his posting clues which slipped by, especially if you read between the lines.) has been very effective on the
web.
If jsg8472 had not been banned from posting priveleges, he would have stepped on wagepeace's
corns a little harder and got him more angry, so that he would have given away more data for your intelligence gathering process.
Your moderator needs to really leave your babblers alone so that they can do that job for you. Your other visitor that you
banned was Craig Hubley- hubley@hushmail.com who was the best visitor that you had, on many levels. He was so alienated by
Audra that it will be very difficult for you to beg him to come back. Do it and jsg8472 will help you.
I am not sure that I want to recommend Rabble.ca to anyone, because this is a classic case of how things can go wrong
at an inexperienced new web site, perhaps a tutorial. If Judy Rebick wishes to reinstate jsg8472 , he may try, to help Rabble.com
extricate itself from it's folly, and his return could help expose moles.
To this day viewers
speculate as to what could be wrong with calling someone a "right wing mole". Even if it was not true, it is a benign
remark. Wagepeace admitted that he was a right winger. A mole is an agent of the right posing as left (trueagain). Wagepeace
broke many rules. and jsg8472 few if any, and it was mostly in self-defence or in the vein of left wing or as a pusher of
human rights. Viewers are left with the opinion that Rebick cares little for focussing on intellectual left wing analysis,
and more about nuturing the feelings of the low attention span crowd who gang up on newcomers while stroking the moderator
to tend their insecurities under the direction of wagepeace. They cling together like poor little groupies called "Audra
Rocks", this title chosen by wagepeace where he shepherds and strokes his sheep. Newcomers are quickly identified and
verbally dispatched according to their ability to threaten the agenda.
It calls to mind the
many recent excellent studies in the schools about the BULLYING phenomenom, where newcomers are shunned. Students can be labelled
as "different" if they were to befriend a different student or new student. Why chance the group turning on one
who befriends suspicious strangers ? Better to shun and isolate those people who are different, as they are unlikely to be
able to retaliate or become so alienated as to become paranoid "Trenchcoat Mafia"mass killers.
In the upcoming period of the new McCarthyism following the fiery guerrilla counterattack on The World Trade Towers, the
right winger is dangerous to the very life of the left winger. In the past, reputations and jobs were destroyed and the Rosenbergs
were executed. I fully expect wage peace to contribute darkly to the coming polarization in the Bush's war to save corporate
capitalism.
Solution: I wouldn't do anything, except get a moderator who has a killer instinct
for spotting a mole. Son Tzu said: "Leaders must assign responsibilities to subordinates according to their personalities."
A task that may suit one may not suit another." Audra's big hearted nuturing consensus oriented wish to please the majority
is exactly the wrong type of person for the job.
Study all you posting and following wagepeace's
fanatic growing presence. If he begin to destroy people, expel him. By association, don't get yourself a bad name in the progressives
community if he expands his McCarthy-ite missions as he continues to piggyback on the name of Rabble.com.
And finally, don't hesitate to call me for help, because despite the shabby treatment I have no hard feelings against
you.
PS:
When the police report finally comes in for tracing
the stalker who illegally impersonated my email name and began spamming me about August 3, 2001 which now total over a 1100
free good, sex ads etc (now about 55 every day) in his rage choosing the user name- "Fuk Yu". It may turn out to
be wagepeace, but have nothing except the circumstantial reason that he seems to be the only one with a motive.
In solidarity _jsg8472
__inaugural Chief Organizer [1969] "Metro Tenants
Association" (Toronto).
( In the late 60's I was elected the chief organizer for the Metro
Tenants Association. 2000 tenants demonstrated at Queen's Park.
I worked hard to get the 1971
"Landlord Tenants Act", as a result of managing the door to door outside work, building the membership of 'MTA'
from scratch.)
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- Independent people combine their own efforts with the efforts of others to achieve their greatest success.
_Stephen Covey, entrepreneur, author.
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NOTES:
(For contextual accuracy, don't substitute a brief scan of 'Notes'
for an examination of the complete threads.)
Internet 'chat' groups often draw a few very crafty
moles. Many others are the knee-jerk uninformed, which are often worse than moles for killing the debate. See a good example,
perhaps a classic tutorial:
....Select and read these four threads for an excellent lesson
on how things can go wrong with a new Chat group like Rabble.ca which has been managed for one purpose- emotional support.
Unfair critics have even said that pandering to the pablum people is a stable environment for Judy's self-promotion and for
the sale of her speeches and books.
Follow the problems of internet chat novice- username jsg8472,
as a first time user of an Internet chat group. In the "Activism" section search for these 4 topics:
- CANADA BANNED PROTEST
- Violence Potential In Qweebeck
- Direct Action/Peaceful Protest
- Audra rocks!
- CANADA
BANNED PROTEST: (Scroll more than "Show all topics" to access, then click Page 3 or highest #).
Notice that the moderator closed the topic as soon as it was opened, because she claimed to have an inability to connect
in her mind the first and second sections of the posting about Timothy McVeigh. When you read it, do you think that there
could be a bias or personal reasons to close and lock the posting, because below, jsg8472's attacker WAGEpeace congratulates
the moderator for punishing him for material that was "politically incorrect". The moderator deleted the important
second section, and moved the first section of 'CANADA BANNED PROTEST' to:
- Violence Potential
In Qweebeck: Pages: 1 & 2. [ Scroll to "Show all topics" to access, then click Page 1.]
http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=000005&p=
one
post from jsg8472 rabble-rouser Member # 80 posted April 22, 2001 02:52 PM
& the one reply
from WAGEpeace rabble-rouser Member # 114 posted April 22, 2001 04:54 PM
WAGEpeace breaks
his agreement here and later, to abide by the Rabble.ca rules, spouting an unwarranted salvo- (....Not use babble to post
any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing,).
Audra allowed WAGEpeace's attack, which suggests to everyone that she wants jsg8472 to go after the right wing monster
who has broken most of the above rules. No one knew until later postings that Audra was responding to all WAGEpeace's verbal
caresses, and had become so cosy with right wing WAGEpeace; and, instead of kicking out this abusive right winger, Audra banned
jsg8472 the human rights left winger. This set the right wing political tone to Judy Rebick's website. No one has been able
to say why the self-described right wing WAGEpeace wants to hang around left wing Judy Rebick web site, or why this kind of
mole-like behavior cannot be said out loud. Why is the word MOLE insulting, and more importantly why is the harmless word
mole more important than WAGEpeace's untrue remarks about jsg8472 being a rioter as follows in topic "Violence Potential
In Qweebeck" ?
(quote:)
wagepeace rabble-rouser Member
# 114 posted April 22, 2001 04:54 PM
Again, let's be realistic.
Wanting compensation for being tear gassed by the police when you are taking part in a riot is a lot like robbing a family,
being convicted and then suing the family for your harsh treatment by the police.
Puh-lease,
if this is the ideological best that the anti-FTAA factions can muster then by golly, Taco Bell might as well take over the
world.
Also, any alalogy that breathes the words Tiananmen Square with the protest in Quebec
is just nuts.
Here's one for you. The brave students who faced the People's Army in Tiananmen
Square would gladly work for minimum wage in a free country like Canada because that is what they were there for - promoting
democracy.
Again, to the protesters who condone acts of violence, to Maude Barlow and her
ilk who are in a position to decry hooliganism within their ranks and then blame the fence as a *provocation* ...
"...Kick that least politically correct crap right in the nuts...
OH YEAH!!" (from- see below)
WAGEpeace's lies from above comments:
- jsg8472 did not want compensation, he said that he would give away any compensation.
-
jsg8472 was not robbing a family. (putting the remark as a metaphor is worse for being a cowardly straw man comparison)
- jsg8472 was called a rioter.
- jsg8472 "Maude Barlow and her ilk"
(an untrue description)
- jsg8472 WAGEpeace has such anger. I have no urge to kick him "right
in the nuts", as he says when referring to my human rights work.
Next go to other posts
and replies between jsg8472 and WAGEpeace at:
- Direct Action/Peaceful Protest. - Page 1 at:
http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=000011&p=1
____
Direct Action/Peaceful Protest is where jsg8472 is permanently removed in response to secret accusation letters from
right wing Audra groupies at the "Audra rocks!" topic. The accusations were not disclosed to,
or verified by jsg8472 .
"audra estrones big sister Member # 2 posted May 01, 2001 10:28
PM
jsg8472, when you registered on babble you agreed to:
quote:
Not use babble to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar,
hateful, harassing, obscene, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law.
You've broken a few of those rules above. I've suspended your posting ability until further notice.
p.s. I'm really sorry everyone. I don't know how I missed this. It's not your job, but if you ever want to email me about
problems on the boards, ie: you're being accused of being a right-wing mole by other users, please feel free.
[ May 01, 2001: Message edited by: audra estrones ]"
- Audra rocks!:
(Mostly site groupies urged on by a few vocal non-lefties in a feeding frenzy competition to support the vanilla view of the
moderator against their left wing opponents.)
Started by WAGEpeace of course: http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=000044
WAGEpeace's opening insight as he begin his topic- "Audra rocks!":
wagepeace rabble-rouser Member # 114 posted May 17, 2001 07:46 PM
Audra kicks ass left
right and center. I am, as always, a fan.
Kick that least politically correct crap right in
the nuts... OH YEAH!!
I just had to post this Audra. You are my favorite webmistress!!
supplimentary: Topic: Fight to Win. Liam McCarthy rabble-rouser Member # 800 posted June 13, 2001 06:38
PM
- ? Lex or ? criticises Audra
http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=000056
http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=000056&p=2 (page 2)
http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=000056&p=3 (page 3)
Chatters and moderators:
Often chosen
from the political spectrum instead of their knowledge of social dynamics-
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/03/27/health/27CONV.html
This N Y Times article is a good proxy if you compare the dynamics of school cliques with chat group cliques like "Audra
rocks!" Audra could learn from this article i
- " Many highly intelligent
people are poor thinkers. Many people of average intelligence are skilled thinkers.
..........The
power of a car is separate from the way the car is driven. ....Edward De Bono Physician, editor".
- " If you fear making anyone mad, then you ultimately probe for the lowest common denominator of human achievement".
....Jimmy Carter.
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#_ URL Indexes ( ? soon )
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C:\WINDOWS\Favorites\DebatingTermsDevide&Rule#HinduHardwire.doc
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Index [ Full story below.]
# Moles at your meeting.
# Issue selection RESOLUTION.
# Religeons are the enemy.
# PHYSICALLY, Taliban women suffer LESS.
# A Solution.
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Don't trash the religeons of
others with your western religeons' hangups on physical pain and death, or on a gender hangups on physical pain.
<> ****** <> <> ****** <> <> ****** <>
Moles at
your meeting:
Read the following before each meeting begins: ( or have it printed to pass out when all are seated.)
At a community organizing meeting exactly at the time when demonstration tactics and strategy are discussed,
very frequently a reasonable woman will stand up and denounce the tactics and strategy as too violent. She has basic comforts,
so poverty experience is her missing frame of reference for class analysis, This has lead her to adopt from the rants of
the right wing, a righteous wish to victimize the less fortunate.
This is the 'right wing mole' at work at a meeting
or in an internet political chat forum.
The mole may be unconsiously deluded, and/or reactionary newcomers at
the meeting may join her in sympathy to 'Devide & Rule". It seems best not to attack her, but instead to point out:
# _The VIOLENCE word is a meaningless sinkhole, and when referring to the violence against the ill-gained
property of an evil oppressor is gaining acceptance - see Walcom's article at: http://
# _A convincing
appearance of violence for the media is necessary to get coverage, which in reality is absolutely not intended for real violence.
# _There are 2 experiences in attendance at the meeting:
1_ experienced fighters in a war of ....self-defence
for years,
2_ experienced demonstrators who ...postpone war forever.
The experienced
fighters are those with hands on experience of being oppressed, such as First Nations and others who are already in a war.
The experienced fighters may want war at the demonstration knowing the media is bad anyway, and most experienced demonstrators
do not.
# _Terrorist or Freedom Fighter is the same term, so guerrilla seems a better term when
applicable and often "blowback counterattack guerrilla".
# _A Demonstrator is a different species
entirely, and the temporary demonstration is finished when they go back to a basic home.
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Issue selection RESOLUTION: _ANTI-WAR & ANIMAL
RIGHTS have a larger interest.
ANTI-WAR:
1 embraces, if not
2 encompasses, or
3 need not dilute or delay
...the 'Anti-globalization' issues.
ANIMAL RIGHTS:
1
embraces, if not
2 encompasses or
3 need not dilute or delay the
... 'water rights'
and
... 'Environmental Rights' issues.
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RELIGEONS & AMERICAN GOVERNMENT ARE THE 2 WORLD PROBLEMS:
2001 1016:
There is growing convergence of human rights; and, animal rights from the roots of British animal welfare movement and
the tree-huggers of America's environmental movement.
I have followed the amazingly successfull anarchist strategy
of the neo-primitive Zerzan movement's rocketing birth from relative obscurity from THE SEATTLE BATTLE forward: http://mollyfindit.homestead.com/warmfuzzy.html
( near the bottom of the page.)
M.I.T.'s Chomsky with 40 years of analysis may today disagree with Zerzan's tactics
perhaps wrongly, if the exploding birth of Zerzan subscribers that gathered around the Seattle Battle exceed the subscribers
lost to the public backlash from bad press. Only time will tell if this imprinting can retain, because newer students' history
may seem to begin SEPT 11.
I do not agree with the many marxist's outdated theories or their foes
the corporate globalization capitalists.
America is not the number one problem. It is the second problem.
The problem of problems, are the big three pushy religeons-
Christianity, Judaism and Islam.
Don't trash these religeous people, but cleanse or purge the concepts of these organized cults of outdated dogma and superstitious
writings. The prophets were well meaning but were only the mere mortal sources of their holy books 2000 years ago when the
feudal masses of the West had no schools , except for the very few educated people surrounding kings and nobles. What religious
scribe or interpretor worth his salt would not spin his translations slightley to aid in the digestion of God's word ? The
BOOK AUTHORS necessarily and strategically relied on emotion and her useful handservant Faith, because the unschooled masses
of the West were not the students of today who are now encouraged to question their teachers and their religeon's books.
The history of religeon wars is a list of the world's enemies.
In better standing is the quasi-religeon
Hinduism and breakaway offshoots; non-fundamentalist psychological groups like Bhuddism; and, Islam's separate Sufi groups.
They better state the Universe's One who has no name, and are among those referred to in the popular saying "I don't
believe in religeon, I believe in God."
For 30 years Hinduism's Yogas and some of Islam's non-fundamentalist
Sufi teachings of the Guerjieff/Ouspenski group have been fast gaining popularity among the intellectual communities of America.
Here in contrast to the fundamentalist, a student is actually trained to practise questioning EVERYTHING, including his fundamentalism
until he has his own real proof. The Hindu's yoga exercises and Ouspenski Sufi-like practices can actually be used by bible
thumping Christians to enhance their religeon by re-intoducing the spiritual element which got lost from his religeon. An
example of this is that over time, meditation has morphed into prayer. It distorted a 3000 year old Yoga technical tools
that psychologically hardwired new neurons into the brain, and prayer became a useless petition of verbal pleading gibberish
to gain favourable materialistic goodies. Oblivious to the Hindu technicians' spiritual teachings, we are now beginning to
reinvent the wheel 3000 years later by inserting computer chips into the human brain _jsg.
More
cosmology and other details at 1999 web page, near the page bottom http://mollyfindit.homestead.com/warmfuzzy.html
or
_ SEE below:
Notes- Hinduism: From file: C:\WINDOWS\Favorites\___jsg's_webpages\snipits20010104.doc
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Physically, to a degree Taliban
women suffer LESS:
#_ All American woman feed genetically modified food to their children.
#_ One
in 4 American mothers give heart disease and diabetes to obese children.
#_ Half of American woman will have venerial
disease.
#_ Some 5 year old girls get lipstick with bathing suits for beauty pagents.
#_
#_
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Harris chose to announce his resignation on the same day as the Toronto Stock Exchange
demonstration- THE OCT 16 SHUT DOWN HARRIS'S CORPORATE CAPITALISM. Was it a coincidence or a desperate futile attempt to
save the Conservative Party from the backlash after it's criminal programs to pump money to corporations from people of low
and no income ?
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The September 11 blowback guerrilla counterattack ( ? coincidence ) was just
days after the South Afican world forum on rascism; and just days after the USA was the only country in the world at the Kyoto
Accords environmental protection world forum, and wanted to trade animal extinction and animal habitat space, in exchange
for profits:
"Animals whom we have made our slaves we do not like to consider our equals". - Charles
Darwin.
"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
- Mohandas Gandhi" (1869-1948)
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The September 11 blowback guerrilla counterattack destroyed the symbols of the values that the former Liberal Party's
Eric Kierens hates- "corporate democracy.":
"WE WERE not born to live in a corporate globe, yet that
is the world we are moving towards.'' _Eric Kierans, former Canadian Liberal Party communications minister - from his 2001
book.
A Solution:
Cut off the $billions of $$ aid to Israel and PLO until they settle
in and follow UN mandates, OR,
do nothing, as a carrot to give help to Bin Laden's blowback guerrilla counterattacks
against America.
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Notes- Hinduism:
From file: C:\WINDOWS\Favorites\___jsg's_webpages\snipits20010104.doc
20010103: Thoughts today-
jsg:
HINDUISM IS MORE THAN RELIGEON.
India nearly got it perfect. India's system remains stable
for thousands of years. An ancient cosmology spans the multi-faced Hindu religion to most everything else- philosophy, medicine,
pschycology, private enterprise, social enterprise and tribal war. Could the accuracy of the truths of those early Hindus
be the reason why Hinduism is recently been held above other religions & spirtual beliefs by todays intellectuals ? Also,
Hinduism doesn't actively try to steal converts, & is sometimes used by other religions as a tool to understand their
religeon. Catholics & Protestants with common sense have nothing to fear and can gain many benefits to pass on to others.
However American fundament religions are rushing forward to a certain end if they see it as competition instead of a helping
hand.
The holy books of India address rather than duck scientific questioning, & British authors Huxley
& Isherwood among others, over 30 years ago ellevated these Hindu scriptures, helped by new Yoga centres etc. In theory,
if you instead of classifying and legitimizing the Hindu warrior as a psychological or religious archetype, internal wars
may have been avoided in India, had the industrialized world's most popular democracy [democratic socialism] been known and
used instead, fuedalistic society's soldier solutions. We have revised or de-masculinized the male, with our society of freedom
from the smallest pain and refusal to accept death without extended life support systems. We have cancelled the warrior class.
The myth of glory for the John Wayne hero, or the Vietnam soldier hero is gone except for the small fringe of skinhead groups.
Maybe you are leaning toward the new mens' groups, or you like fundamentalist religion, or you vote like a black Republican
when 90% of blacks vote Democrat. Don't be defensive, don't be nervous- study the ancient religeous teachings of some of
your adversaries, and you will find out that most of their ideas are not against your beliefs. Modern man surrounded by modern
science, asks more questions, so long range, it is the religions with scientific answers that will outlast. Many ancient
religions tell you to ask for proof, then proceed to lead you to the proof. If you are on a fundamentalist's war of religious
recruitement, knowledge of your adversary is mandatory. Read Sun Tzu's "The Art of War". It emphasizes the importance
of deception. I think that Rev. Jerry Falwell has read it.
Canada's communist medical care system has placed
Canada as a semi-socialist country, between the Capitalist USA and socialist Europe. Fundamental Christian values in the
US and Canada prevent more social programs, because we seem with our voting patterns, to want to believe millionaire politicians.
Despite Jesus's love for the poor, the politician endorses or allows us to substitute a Christian love for social justice
in our Christian emotionally based society. Have faith. Good luck.
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ADVICE from the First Nations Elders:
Computers are ideal for financial data, not life support systems:
Many years ago. an elder of our native
people suggested that we are now building the future "UP ON STICKS", and the future will fall apart. I believe that
Mother Nature is all set in AUTOMATIC MODE, but we are pulling the automatic apart and substituting computer technology's
bugs to rearrange the future into MANUAL MODE with computers, which will require continually larger fixes of computer disasters.
-
Is PROGRESS the direction from MANUAL to AUTOMATIC ? or
Is PROGRESS the direction from AUTOMATIC
to MANUAL ?
- After the last tree has been cut down,
After the last river has been
poisoned,
After the last fish has been caught
Only then will you find
That money cannot be eaten.
- Cree Prophecy
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__If the major life entities in the Milky Way are not animals and plants of Earth, but are Solar Systems, no problem;
but, if it is Earth, then we are breaking the rule "IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHY IT WAS BUILT, DO NOT TEAR IT DOWN". When
we genetically alter plants and ourselves, we are tearing down Mother Nature before we completely understand her holistic
plan. It cannot be put back together- we can't restore another copy of (E://) drive. [ The major life entity is not man
at the bottom of the solar system's food chain. Man is like one cell on the planet gone wild and suicidely exterminating
his own adjoining cells, the others of earth's life forms. The major life entity is the Earth or The Sun. DO NOT WORRY.
NO PROBLEM. The Universe will protect Herself. The Galaxy with Her very intelligent brain's tools of time & distance,
& other intelligent tools which we have not yet discovered, has ordered the Solar System to protect her Mother Universe
by ordering the Earth to die, if the one cell rampage continues. She has targeted as Her early victims, those life forms
that utter the phase "I WANT A TAX CUT".] _Full story: http://mollyfindit.homestead.com/warmfuzzy.html
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5 years ago Jerry Brown said.
-----Original Message-----
From: john gilbert <johngilbertpttraverse@attcanada.net>
To: john s gilbert <j8472@attcanada.net>
Date: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 2:58 PM
Subject:
WTP - Jerry Brown on Counter-Terrorism (http://www.wtp.org/cterror.html)
Pass a law - don't think - act in the
haste of emotion! This is the program, folks- to make this a nation of sheep, running from one side of the field to the other
on cue, on whatever excitement, whatever crisis they're going to throw at us next. Politics runs on fear-fear of crime, fear
of minorities, fear of the underclass, fear of dope, fear of the immigrants across the border, fear of terrorists. That's
what I see as so tragic. Our media- instead of sharpening our intellects and our ability to see and argue and debate and come
to conclusions that we've tested and refined-gives us this soupy tapioca that we wallow in as a kind of soporific for our
brains. This is the dumbing down of America!
_Full text continued below.
Judy Rebick-
Our media tapioca spokesperson is in the washroom this fall
Judy, turn down media requests. You displace others
willing to defend Thobani when you won't.
How do you think Barlow, Rebick, NDP and CBC etc should be pushed
for not taking advantage of Thobani's speech "U.S. foreign policy is drenched in blood", which was an excellant
cue to jump-start the Canadian debate. Their wimpy backing off is the opposite that progessives expect. CPAC coverage has
the Toronto Sun's Eric Margolis attacking former Ameican foreign policy more than all the progressives together (although
he wrongly seems to perceive Russia as still being a communist influenc- Quote: The Northern Alliance is not a merry band
of pro-American freedom fighters battling the wicked Taliban, but a Russian front organization run by leaders of the revived
Afghan Communist party.
(from- http://www.google.com/search?as_q=MARGOLIS+NEWS+TORONTO+or+ERIC&num=100&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&safe=off
), and:
torontomuslims.com- columns- Margolis Kutty Siddiqui Khan Baroud at: http://www.torontomuslims.com/columns/
When Rebick and Barlow let the right wing say it for them, something is very wrong. Their silence speaks for their
ego:
"We protect our value as media leaders of the issues." My leaders would say:
"We
protect the value of the issues by small risks to our leadership."
================================================
Oakland Ecopolis Archives Radio University Links What You Can Do Home
JERRY BROWN ON COUNTER-TERRORISM
AND ABUSE OF POWER
"THAT'S THE WAY I SEE IT"
Pass a law - don't think - act in the haste
of emotion! This is the program, folks- to make this a nation of sheep, running from one side of the field to the other on
cue, on whatever excitement, whatever crisis they're going to throw at us next. Politics runs on fear-fear of crime, fear
of minorities, fear of the underclass, fear of dope, fear of the immigrants across the border, fear of terrorists. That's
what I see as so tragic. Our media- instead of sharpening our intellects and our ability to see and argue and debate and come
to conclusions that we've tested and refined-gives us this soupy tapioca that we wallow in as a kind of soporific for our
brains. This is the dumbing down of America!
Please notice what's going on since the Oklahoma bombing. Congressman
Henry Hyde says that the anti-terrorism bill, which has been hung up in the Senate, will now speed through the full house
without additional hearings. Rep. Schumer of New York predicts, "After this horrible attack I think this anti-terrorist
bill will move like lightning through Congress." Mr. Schumer, are you talking about the deliberative process and saying
it's going to operate like lightning? That absolutely betrays the essence of a representative body, which is conscience, debate,
reflection, and careful deliberation before writing a new chapter in the central state's coercive power. Anything that can
create lightning and speed, where there's supposed to be deliberateness, I say, watch out! Don't let people use the suffering
of little children for their own collateral and ulterior motives. When you speed through Congress a bill several hundred pages
in length, which none of the Congressmen read, which alters the basic liberties that for 200 years have been the basis of
the promise of America-is that censorship and propaganda, or isn't it?
Let me be more precise. The Omnibus Counter-Terrorism
Act of 1995 was introduced into the Congress a few months ago. It's been around the Justice Department and the FBI for several
years. The bill would allow the President, without any other authority, to label any foreign organization as terrorist. Once
that is done, any person assisting that organization commits a crime. If they say you're affiliated with it or you're sympathetic
with it-they've got a new tool, a handle, a club. The ANC, led by Nelson Mandela, could have been designated a terrorist group
because it was an insurrection against the apartheid government in South Africa. If you gave some money for a feeding program
for the ANC in South Africa, you could be branded a terrorist and arrested and put in prison for ten years. The bill also
allows for deporting resident and lawful aliens. If you are a foreign citizen in the United States, and they want to say you
are connected to a terrorist, they do not have to reveal their evidence if they claim national security would be affected.
Without even making that claim, they can haul you into court and give only a summary of the evidence against you, not a confrontation
with your accuser as guaranteed by the Bill of Rights. And if the judge should require the government to say who your accusers
are, the government can appeal to a secret appeals court and you have no right to have your lawyer represent you. That is
the Omnibus Counter Terrorism Act of 1995.
Be careful! Tragedy enables scoundrels to grab more power! This deportation
proceeding with the secret court affects foreigners, but when you authorize a judicial proceeding with censored evidence,
you set in motion a procedure that can be used in some other context with respect to American citizens. Remember, as far as
we know the bombers of Oklahoma City are not resident or illegal aliens, but are decorated American ex-GIs, who were born
American citizens. This bill does not relate to what actually happened in Oklahoma City. When the President says he needs
new authority to bug and tap the phones of suspected terrorists, he is lying. The federal and state agents already have the
power to tap and bug suspects in terrorist investigations. There are 40 different types of federal crimes that can be used
as a basis for electronic surveillance. What the President is asking for is the ability to eavesdrop for any suspected federal
crime. Why doesn't he just say, "What we want now is to give the state even more power than it has"! Listen to what
I am saying here. The President is lying to us. He is manipulating the suffering and the tragedy of Oklahoma City. Most of
the proposals he is connecting to the tragedy have nothing to do with that kind of crime. Nothing!
The wiretapping
proposal, the bugging, means that the government can tap your telephone for any suspected federal crime. An investigator can
tap your phone without a warrant if he says he thought he was acting in good faith. In 1914, the Supreme court said the government
cannot use illegally obtained evidence in a criminal trial. Now we say it can be used if a government agent gets on the stand
and says, "I thought I had probable cause. Now I see I didn't, but I acted in good faith." Then the judge has to
let in the evidence. That is a hole in the Fourth Amendment protection against the invasion of our homes and personal effects
that you could drive a Ryder truck through. This is happening because we are lulled into some kind of emotional stupefaction
and our critical faculties are turned off. I want you to turn them back on! The Oklahoma tragedy is being exploited to attack
our rights and liberties. It's a manipulation of crisis to expand the power of the national government. If that isn't tyranny,
it's certainly on the road to tyranny!
President Clinton also wants to use the army in domestic crime fighting.
He says, don't think about it, hurry it through, don't quibble! Hey, Mr. Clinton, the constitutional protections of the American
citizenry are not a quibble! They're basic to curtailing the overarching power of an arrogant state! People are getting a
little nervous here. The NRA referred to federal agents as "jack-booted government thugs who seize our guns, destroy
our property, and even injure or kill us." The folks of the NRA and the militia crowd are mostly white folks, yet they're
saying that the police are doing to them exactly what the Black Panthers and some of the Latino groups said twenty years ago
about the FBI. If you talk to people in East L.A., to people in minority communities, you'll find that poor people often feel
pushed around by police authorities, but now these red-blooded American NRA types are talking like the Black Panthers used
to talk-an incredible evolution in thinking!
I see these militia groups as expressions of profound alienation
and disaffection. There's a great deal of concern in the country about the loss of sovereignty because of the Trilateral Commission,
the new World Trade Organization, the globalized economy. People who are liberals say it one way; people who are in the militia
and the right wing say it another way, but they're all pointing to a reduction in the capacity of the United States to control
its own destiny and a parallel reduction in the ability of individual citizens to control their lives.
Is American
sovereignty being undermined by something that you could fairly call a "new world order"? George Bush coined the
phrase, but can we use it meaningfully about a new dimension in American sovereignty wherein many of the important decisions
are now made-not in the Congress, not even by American bankers or industrialists-but by those who are involved in some larger
universe, who do not owe any loyalty to what we call America? A lot of people, myself included, were against GATT and NAFTA
because we believe it was a diminution of American sovereignty. Ralph Nader took that position. Noam Chomsky took that position.
So did Buchanan. So did Phyllis Schlafley. Letting the corporate structure breed into mega-monumental, gigantic international
structures of private power is at the heart of the alienation and the distrust. Unless you get at those larger issues, more
laws on wiretapping and another thousand agents will do nothing except intensify the very fear that we are supposedly being
protected from.
Now Congress wants to look into the Waco disaster. They would like to know how Janet Reno
and Mr. Potts, the deputy FBI chief, gave the order to charge the compound. Janet Reno said if she had known that 80 people
would die at Waco, she wouldn't have done it. What does that mean? What was her decision-making process? What information
did she have? What were the considerations, the options, the assumptions? Were those assumptions verified or were they just
assertions by Mr. Potts? Was there any systematic bias, any facts the FBI distorted or withheld? Was there ever an alternative
not to go in, to just sit out there and wait, keep negotiating, keep talking? Janet Reno said they waited 51 days-they had
to move! Why did they have to move? One allegation was that there was child abuse and that was the reason they went on the
raid. Obviously for the little children to be burnt to death was a hell of a lot worse than the alleged child abuse. Then
it turned out there was no credible evidence of child abuse. So that seemed a rather questionable rationale.
How
does power operate in a free country when decisions are made that end up killing 80 American people, including almost two
dozen little children? We can't know if new laws are needed unless we know how existing power works. When the government has
power to watch our credit, to bug our phones, to basically create a Gestapo-type police force, we have every reason to be
suspicious and demand a high level of accountability and public review.
The Congress did a little investigation
into the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms in July 1979 and April 1980 and held a hearing on the Constitution in the
subcommittee of the Senate Judiciary Committee in October 1980. Here's one of the conclusions based upon these hearings: It's
apparent that enforcement tactics made possible by current federal firearms laws are constitutionally illegal and practically
reprehensible. These practices, amply documented in hearings before this subcommittee, leave little doubt that the Bureau
has disregarded rights guaranteed by the Constitution and laws of the United States. It has trampled upon the Second Amendment
by chilling exercise of the right to keep and bear arms by law-abiding citizens. It has offended the Fourth Amendment by unreasonably
searching and seizing private property. It has ignored the Fifth Amendment . . .
Remember, this is the government
that last year had 32,000 well paid bureaucrats generating 19 million pages of secrets that we don't know about. Yes, I said
19 million secret documents! That news was broadcast without our members of Congress rising up and asking what all that secrecy
is covering up, and who we are guarding the truth from-other than the American people! When you put a veil of secrecy around
concentrated national power, you are inviting abuse. To add to it with more legal weapons for the government to use against
the people is foolhardy.
Before we throw our rights out the window, let's know more about Waco and a few other
instances. For example, the shoot-on-sight procedure employed by the ATF in the Randy Weaver case, when the sniper put Weaver's
wife and child in his sights and killed them-just like that! That was considered such an appropriate procedure that Mr. Potts,
the deputy FBI chief, got promoted. Is that the way it's supposed to be?
Let's take another case. The American,
Michael Devine, was killed by the Guatemalan military, according to the man who participated in the murder, because Mr. Devine
was thought to have bought a stolen army rifle. A group of soldiers were sent out to get Mr. Devine, torture him, decapitate
him, and then take the gun. The person in charge was getting some CIA money. Bush made a big deal out of cutting off American
assistance to Guatemala, but kept millions going under the table to the same people. You think you know what's going on? You
think your government is leveling with you?
Here's another one. It seems that Janice Hart in Portland, Oregon,
pulled up in front of her house with her daughters to find her house being ransacked by eight ATF agents. They'd kicked in
the door and were searching her home, throwing dishes around, pulling clothes off from hangers, and emptying drawers on the
floor. They interrogated her in the basement for an hour before reading her her rights. She asked to call an attorney and
the agents refused. When they finally asked her if she was Janice Marie Harrel, she told them, no, she was Janice Hart. Then
the ATF agents mocked her, accused her of selling firearms and cocaine, and arrested her. The Portland police took her downtown
for booking and within 30 seconds of fingerprinting realized that the ATF had the wrong person!
An isolated
case? A lot of these things are going on! Now the FBI has infiltrated a domestic gay rights organization, ACT-UP. This group
causes public disturbances in order to get attention to the issue of AIDS, but it's certainly no threat to the United States.
If they have a right to go in after ACT-UP, then they can go after anybody! Before we give more authority to the investigators,
let's get some answers to the cases that are already on the record. And let's create conditions of justice and stability that
really depress the roots of terrorist thinking and therefore of terrorist activity. If we can learn anything from the Oklahoma
tragedy, it's that the stability, the prosperity, the coherence of communities have to be the focus of reform in terms of
our political future. The enemy is not outside of America; it's the growing inequality and the crime that is bred as a result.
We need to be in it together and all have a stake, not this systematic accumulation of wealth on the part of one-fifth at
the top and a systematic deterioration, impoverishment, of tens of millions of people at the bottom. We need to craft a real
plan, a revolutionary turn in American politics, not the claptrap coming out of the "Contract with America" or the
Democratic Party, because they are both bankrupt. It's going to take a depth of experience and reflection and debate. That's
what We the People organization is working on-a real plan for this country, based on caring and on justice, a different kind
of America, a different kind of government, a different scale, different principles.
We ask your help. We need
your support, both for the radio show and for this endeavor. Our number is 1-800-426-1112. Give us a call.
Material
for this article was excerpted and edited by Doret Kollerer from Jerry Brown's "We The People" radio broadcasts.
North Coast XPress, June/July 1995
Copyright 1996, We The People Organization
Comments about
these pages?
last modified 4/20/97
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On Action:
- There is only one time that is important -- NOW ! It is
the most important time because it is the only time that we have any power. _Leo Tolstoy, writer.
- Taking a new step,
uttering a new word, is what people fear the most. _Fyodor Dostoyevski, writer.
- It is better to die on your feet
than to live on your knees. _Emiliano Zapata
- "Come to the edge," He said.
They said, "We
are afraid."
"Come to the edge," He said.
They came. He pushed them... and they flew.
- Guillaume Apollinaire (1880-1918) French novelist, critic.
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